KDE 4....

[Davemon]

http://www.kde.org/announcements/announce-4.0.2.php



Should be interesting. I am undecided at this point. While I like Compiz-Fusion, having special effects included closer to the graphical GUI might make it better and more stable.



Davemon

[stack]

So I installed Kubuntu 7.10 on my gaming box (spare drive so I didn't mess up my gaming box ) with the express purpose of messing around with KDE4 on Kubuntu. That was painful.
The box is a p4 3ghz with 2GB of ram and a decent pci express 256MB ATI card and a generic 4yr old 1280x1024 monitor that I can not ever remember giving me a problem under Linux (key point for the story).

I don't know why, but kubuntu refused to give me a proper display. It would only display in 600x480 low resolution mode. It really ticked me off when everytime I would write my own /etc/X11/xorg.conf file and startx it would reconfigure and over write my xorg.conf file. Eventually I installed the ATI drivers and it was a little better (btw, I have decided that I absolutely HATE the adept package manager. I find it to be far from adept. Thankfully I know apt-get well and synaptic works just fine ). It would give me 1100x800 but when I would tell it to do 1280x1024 I would test it and it would look good then it would ask me to log out, I would do so, and it would reset it back to 1100x800! Everytime I would modify the /etc/X11/xorg.conf file and try it again (log out and log in), it would over write the conf file! I don't know what process does that and keeps overwriting the file on log in, but I am pretty certain the code was written by the spawn of the devil or at least a microsoft employee....

So after an hour I said something along the lines "F this s**t" and installed Ubuntu 7.10. Default Gnome gave me 1024x768, and as soon as I logged in I got the "you can use restricted drivers for your ati card" message (something I didn't get with kubuntu....shouldn't that be standard? I hope and pray I just missed it, but I was looking for it and never saw it). Installed the restricted drivers, reboot, and bingo! On login I got 1280x1024. As easy as it should be.

So then I installed KDE4 (now that I had a working X with gnome to fall to in case I need to test graphical settings). Right away it worked. My only guess is that Kubuntu does something different then Ubuntu even though they are supposed to be identical. Maybe its KDE. Either way, not very happy with Kubuntu at the moment...

So on to KDE4....or at least the 1-2hrs I have spent messing around with it....

Trying to list all the things I like about KDE4 would take too long so here is a few . I like the widgets stuff (something which I have never liked enough to implement on my own before). Something about this widgets is much nicer then when I have seen them used before. I like the look and feel for the most part. I like the graphics and fancy stuff although I have not found all the different things I personally use (like transparency...haven't found it yet). Over all I like.

Now for the bad: And really, there is only one (I am blaming the resolution stuff on Kubuntu since I don't have a problem on Ubuntu).
The Menu.
I will NEVER use KDE4 if the menu can not be changed. It sucks so badly I can't think of anything to compare it to!
Here's the problem: http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.0/sc ... _thumb.jpg
If that link doesn't work here is the kde guide the picture is for the Kickoff: http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.0/desktop.php
So you can see that you click the Kmenu button and from there you can click Applications and get a normal list of :Games, Graphics, Internet, ect
You then have to click one of those to get a list of whats inside of them. If you want to go back, you click the back arrow. Not too difficult to understand. But just try to find something that you don't know where it is!
Under old KDE/Gnome/everything else you can hover over the item with the mouse and a side menu displays the contents. Its incredibly easy to find applications.

I will give you an example. Terminal. Everyone knows what this is. I have two boxes in front of me with Gnome on them. One of them had an install over 2 years ago and one of them had an install about 3 months ago.
On the older box you go Gnome Menu (Applications)->System Tools->Terminal
On the newer box you go Gnome Menu (Applications)->Accessories->Terminal
Not difficult as there is only one level difference, but as I use both systems frequently I get the two jumbled in my head all the time. You select Gnome Menu (Applications) with the mouse, hover over Accessories, if Terminal isn't there you hover over System Tools and click terminal.
2 clicks, 2 hovers in worst case scenario.

Now for KDE 4.
Click the Kmenu. Click the Applications. Click the Accessories. Nope not there. Click back button. Click System Tools. There it is. Click to select.
6 clicks and you have to wait for the animation (haven't figured out how to turn that off yet either). Now try to find some that have multiple layers instead of just one! Guaranteed to piss people off.

I have used KDE in the past (I *heart* Knoppix) but have never been a big fan of it. That means I don't know the KDE menu's very well. For a new comer it is so difficult to find applications with this menu that I will never use this menu layout other then just messing around and I certainly won't recommend it to anyone. It is so slow and bulky that there is no way I am going to waste my time every day trying to mess with it and I shudder to think of trying to do tech support and talk someone through it. I think I might have better luck trying to learn Microsoft's new "Ribbon" menu's.

If this becomes the default menu for KDE4 I won't use KDE4 or any distro's that force it (yes, that does mean I will ditch Knoppix too).

For all the other great things about KDE4, I refuse to mess with such a clunky menu. I hope that they have an alternative menu and I REALLY hope that they are upfront with changing the menu because if someone who has never used Linux before tries to use this menu, they will throw Linux away faster then Ballmer can throw a chair.

Now I have all of 2 hours experience with KDE4 so I am sure I am missing something. However, I have years of Linux experience and experience in /many/ GUI's. Therefore (in my mind at least) I am a good subject for trying out the new KDE4 user interface. If I can't find what I need to find after 2 hours, I can see no reasonable way that a complete newbie is going to adjust quickly.

I did find a bunch of information recently on KDE's website in the past hour so I am going to try the transparency stuff again as well as a few other things when i get home tonight. I will let you know how that goes.

If anyone else has a comment, please post back. I am interested in seeing what opinions others have about KDE4.

[Davemon]

I had to chuckle a few times whilst reading your post.

I have had the odd situation where a resolution/Hrz that is suposed to be good with the monitor is not an option.

I had read somewhere that you can install different start menu's. Never found out anything more about that.


Sadly, Kubuntu gets less support than Ubuntu. Btw, have you tried installing KDE now that you have Gnome? Hehe, prepare to have your install fubared. If you dare. And only chickens wouldn't dare. Your no chicken, right?

I seem to recall on KDE 3.x that you have several choices for the start menu. Well, options as to the way they behave. One choice is where the menu shows based on just moving the curser over it. Another option is a more static menu that you click and then it holds open your menu, and then you can select a sub menu that stays open. I don't have a KDE system hooked up right now. Will get back to you on that one. (Plastic ring a bell?)

Btw, do they have the cubes and wobbly effect in KDE 4? I read a little up on it but it wasn't specific.




Davemon

[stack]

See the thing is, the resolution/Hz works perfect under regular Ubuntu with Gnome.

Btw, have you tried installing KDE now that you have Gnome?

Yup, thats how I got KDE4 to work and play with. It was really easy. Just added a line to my /etc/apt/source.list. See:

installed Ubuntu 7.10. Default Gnome gave me 1024x768...Installed the restricted drivers, reboot, and bingo! On login I got 1280x1024. As easy as it should be. So then I installed KDE4 (now that I had a working X with gnome to fall to in case I need to test graphical settings). Right away it worked.

As for the alternative menus, I have not found anything on it with KDE4 but you are right that KDE3 had a couple of different ones. If they are there, I just can't find them in KDE4.

The desktop effects boggle me. They were on and they were working just fine. Wobbly effects and all. Then I did an update on Monday, restarted KDE4, and now KDE4 says my video card doesn't support the desktop effects:-( I have not had a chance to mess with it since....maybe this weekend. I am sure a setting just got turned on/off.

BTW, the more I use KDE4 the more I like it and the more I /loathe/ the KDE4 menu....bleck!

[Edit] Stupid spelling....fixed a few typos I missed before...

[stack]

So I found a better screenshot grouping of the new "KickOff" menu.
http://polishlinux.org/kde/kde-41-visua ... ev-783000/
Bleck.
On the plus side, this also shows how to switch to the classic menu. I am going to try that out tonight! Horray! I might be converting to KDE4 afterall!